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everybody this is round two of

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ufo friday for lack of a better term i

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wasn't very creative i apologize but uh

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i have uh

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three people

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um that i had lined up today for this

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um we had quantum witch on that was

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fantastic right

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i love her can't wait to have her back

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and uh later after this one at one

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o'clock we have project unity

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also very excited about that and right

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now we have uh the ufo joe everybody

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knows him

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great guy um does a lot for this

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community and we also have another

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special guest uh that he has brought

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brought along with him

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um and it has to do with mr blumenthal

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and a certain article so uh without

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further ado i am going to bring them in

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and i'm not going to waste time with the

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intro music here

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this time so um first we got joe hello

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how are you sir what's up sean thanks

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for having me

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yeah a pleasure i'm glad you're back um

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and then we have jake christopher king

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how are you sean

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doing well thanks for having me

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good i apologize my background design

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isn't well suited for the three-person

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interview

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yeah that's the first thing i notice

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like i really don't think i can do a

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show with that background

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can you sorry

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give me a half hour oh there we go i was

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like i can be with j christopher

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kingston if you really want me to it's

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um yeah so thanks for for coming along

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um joe you had mentioned a good point

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and we chatted just a little bit before

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this um and it was

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you know

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i guess what i think of is louis

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elizando on fox news saying

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that the uavs give humans

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biological effects

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right i mean and yeah and lou has spoken

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about you know when he was on tucker

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carlson i think it was last year or the

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year before he was asked if he believed

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the ufo you know the united states

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government had debris from a ufo and he

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said yes and now

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in the la the language coming before the

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house and senate in the house portion of

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the bill where they're talking about

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adding a permanent uap ufo office they

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mention in the language they want an

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update on any efforts understanding on

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the ability to capture or exploit

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discovered uap and and right away i

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thought okay that's that's crash

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retrievals and people are like no you're

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reading into that but then lou was on

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fox news the other night and saying

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it's crash retrievals um and they're

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talking about basically making field

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trips to wherever these

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you know wherever the materials or

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objects are and the second part is in

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the house bill it says and this is not

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final language it may not make it into

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the final bill but it says an assessment

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of any health related effects of

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individuals

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that have encountered unidentified

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aerial phenomena and that's points to

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the work of dr kit green

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and gary nolan and i'm sure others

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behind the scenes working with

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experiences who have been injured

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so right away if that makes it into that

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the final language i would think people

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who are not normally interested in this

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subject and they see that they're going

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to immediately say

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wait a second there we may have craft

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and some of these people have been

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injured by close encounters that means

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that people have been talking about

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abductions or experiencers may be

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telling the truth and

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that's the next step it's a huge deal

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and that's why we're always saying it's

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pandora's box once you admit if if any

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you know if the president and it doesn't

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have to be the president but if the

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president ever said these things are

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real we don't know where they're from

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the next step is

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so people may be taken by these you know

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people who are saying grays and mantis

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beings they may be telling the truth and

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that leads us to the article by ralph

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blumenthal which

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jay can talk about which just came out

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this morning in the debrief

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great yeah jay unfortunately i haven't

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hit the time to read it yet um

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but yeah take the floor man

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i could just read it to you we could

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just sit here for like about a half hour

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and i'm just playing around

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i had that similar joke yesterday that's

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interesting

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yeah

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um

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along along with stuart davis uh and

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kirsten blackburn i'm a co-founder of

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the experiencer group which is a private

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member site dedicated to support

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curiosity and community for people

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who've had anomalous events of all kinds

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so we're talking not just

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um

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he's uh ufo experiencers uh people

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near-death experiencers out of body

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uh ghosts all sorts of manners of

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contact um

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and um it

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basically we started back in february

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and have been pretty happy in our quiet

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corner of the internet

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on our custom site

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doing private events and having special

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guests on um

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but um but what happened was um

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leslie kane is associated with some of

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the people on our site and

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and i've known leslie for a bit now and

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uh

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um she came in as a guest really early

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on maybe back in april

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march

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and

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we had like a long conversation with

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some of our

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she

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got in touch with us afterwards and and

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said that um

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ralph who had just

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just just published his

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um

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his new book uh the believer his he did

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a biography of john mack that came out

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in march

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and she said that he he had been

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doing some research working on an

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article on

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um abduction experiencers for the new

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york times and of course that was like

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that like stopped traffic for us i mean

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that was like a very record scratch kind

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of moment in terms of like

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how

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um

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whether we were up for being public or

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private about anything i guess i'd say

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if that makes sense and so leslie was

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like look ralph is looking for

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experiencers

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um

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uh and he didn't want it to be uh he

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wanted a mix of people you know and we

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we kind of started a conversation so

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work on this article

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started way back in april

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and i can go into more detail but

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basically uh

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the new york times had a big editorial

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changeover uh this summer

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and um some of the people that were more

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um

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more on board for publishing leslie and

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ralph's articles

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um left for

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for

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their own reasons that i don't know and

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can't go into but um

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uh ralph um

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did a podcast episode with us it was

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only our second public thing last week

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and um ralph

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um

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spoke publicly for the first time about

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this about this experience our article

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and his deep frustration with the new

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york times not publishing it

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um and

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uh they'd gone back and forth originally

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the the article was going to run on

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sunday on the 4th of july in the sunday

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times

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and we were all amped about it and it

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got pulled maybe like 72 hours before it

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went on

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so this has been like a long-standing

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situation and he went to a couple other

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places

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and

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rollercoaster for some of the people

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involved um but um but it's

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and for me this is the first time that

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i've actually acknowledged publicly

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that i'm that i've encountered non-human

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interviews um and

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and um and so that's go ahead how's that

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been going for you

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well

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it's only about five hours in

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sean

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so uh we'll see

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um but i've but i've been in anonymous

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i've been but i've been an uh i've been

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an anonymous unnamed source for some

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people like richard dolan and stewart

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himself for a while now uh for example i

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was one of the people that was um that's

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unnamed but it was featured in richard's

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alien agenda's book last year

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oh wow okay that news about july i mean

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sean that's huge jay i had no idea was

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that close to coming out i mean that

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would that would have been such a huge

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thing for the new york times if you read

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the article folks go read it on the

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debrief i mean

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and all the experiencers have used their

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names and i didn't know jay you had just

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come out i assumed oh jay jay's been out

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public for a while no big deal but this

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is a pretty big deal i mean you're

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taking

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i know you're an artist and like me it's

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like i do stuff creative i really don't

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care what people think about me but to

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come out and talk i haven't had these

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experiences for you to come out like

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this is

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is so i i appreciate it a lot and all

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the people in that article so thank you

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on that end yeah me as well it gives me

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inner power strength and confidence to

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continue the route i'm doing where i'm

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kind of tiptoeing coming out with my

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experience almost you know it makes a

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lot of difference and part of me is

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afraid to to go all the way and accept

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what happened because

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uh we get treated differently and

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even in the ufo community which is just

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bizarre to me and it's unfortunate but

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that does play a role

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you're absolutely right i had um um i

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had

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stuart and chris and i we actually got

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invited onto coast to coast it was like

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pretty much the only media appearance

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that we've done thus far um

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uh

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with the exception of this now sean

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so

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um but we were on with george knapp back

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in april announcing the site um we had

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just gone through a beta stage of of of

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having just people that we've invited we

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invited experiencers and then we're like

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okay we can open the doors to a few

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hundred people and so um george and

283
00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:10,399
george knapp and stuart have known each

284
00:10:13,829 --> 00:10:12,000
other for years stewart's been a regular

285
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:13,839
guest and came out himself as an

286
00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:16,399
experiencer on george knapp's show

287
00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:19,279
so we went on and beforehand

288
00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:20,800
you know george and his producer were

289
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:21,760
like

290
00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:23,600
well they knew

291
00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:25,440
that i i was and they were like hey do

292
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:27,200
you wanna do you wanna you know and

293
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:29,200
stuart was like do it do it it'll be

294
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:31,360
like a tradition it'll be awesome

295
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:32,399
and uh

296
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:34,720
and i was like i don't know you guys and

297
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:36,000
of course like

298
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:37,920
coast to coast airs at like three in the

299
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:39,839
morning you know i'm on the east coast

300
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:42,000
so like this is like three a.m to five

301
00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:42,959
a.m

302
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:46,079
and i was like okay okay i also i i

303
00:10:48,949 --> 00:10:47,279
lived in a house that had like

304
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:48,959
poltergeist phenomena when i was a kid

305
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,640
and of course some people can connect

306
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:53,040
these two things right they like a lot

307
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,680
of people go into that but you know i

308
00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:57,519
i myself i don't have answers i just

309
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:01,200
have big questions so that's the thing

310
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:04,480
yeah eric eric davis says once you have

311
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:07,279
close encounters of ufos you have you

312
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:09,040
always have poltergeist phenomena i

313
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,399
don't know if it's always and i need to

314
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:12,160
ask them to clarify but yeah you know

315
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,360
there's seems to be some sort of

316
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:14,800
connection

317
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:19,750
yeah so i can't so i talked to so i was

318
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,200
like okay george i can talk about the

319
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:23,120
poltergeist you know i can as and that

320
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,640
would be an inroad to talking about

321
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:26,640
experience or stuff in general and so i

322
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:28,079
talked about that but if you listen back

323
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,600
to that interview it's ridiculous

324
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,800
because hey it's at three o'clock in the

325
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:32,959
morning and b i'm trying to dance this

326
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,320
weird line of like yeah and trying to

327
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:38,320
constantly re-route things to back to

328
00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:40,320
stuff that happened when i was like

329
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:41,920
seven or eight years old rather than

330
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:44,240
anything later uh and that was tough so

331
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:45,600
it's really nice to be able to just kind

332
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,560
of like

333
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:48,640
breathe a sigh of relief as a long form

334
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:50,639
answered your question yeah so you feel

335
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:53,680
a little bit lighter perhaps and for now

336
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:54,639
yeah

337
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:00,000
i kind of keep like self-editing you

338
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:02,240
know keep the horse binders on for like

339
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:03,680
what area

340
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,480
of

341
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,399
online chatter i'm looking at i think

342
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:08,399
i'll probably be okay

343
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:10,800
yeah that can be tough in a lot of the

344
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:13,920
things you feel are you know not

345
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,040
so vocal or direct you know and it's

346
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:18,880
kind of

347
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:21,040
it goes without saying type of stuff if

348
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,639
you know what i mean the the effects

349
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,800
from it um

350
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:26,320
just the way people treat you or the

351
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:28,079
things they say to you or whatever you

352
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,480
know it may not be so direct sometimes

353
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:31,839
it's

354
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:33,200
you know you gotta

355
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,320
just sense that yourself unfortunately

356
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,880
absolutely being an experiencer it often

357
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,560
involves having like one foot in two

358
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:42,959
different worlds um just in terms of

359
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:45,839
like like like the way that

360
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,880
that um consensus reality you know the

361
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,639
reality that you enter into when you go

362
00:12:54,389 --> 00:12:52,399
to the grocery store or you go to your

363
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:54,399
day job or whatever that kind of common

364
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:57,120
reality that we all agree to

365
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,320
the and like many of us know is like

366
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:03,040
not quite it in a lot of different ways

367
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:04,560
right

368
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:07,440
and um and then our personal experience

369
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:10,320
you know and and it can be hard to feel

370
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:12,959
that kind of stigma or to be judged by

371
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,519
others and um yeah so i hope this

372
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:18,480
article starts some good um positive

373
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:20,880
conversations for people

374
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,440
you know and even if even if people

375
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:25,440
can't agree on you know the nature of

376
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,560
mantis beings or whatever that that

377
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,079
hopefully can it can start some

378
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,480
conversations even just among family you

379
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:34,959
know there's there's there's people and

380
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,160
there's people

381
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,920
everybody has it's like there's almost

382
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:40,480
always one person in the family right

383
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:42,959
and and it's just like all right and it

384
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:45,839
often comes down to how is that person

385
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,320
treated initially because like if you're

386
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,639
if your grandma your family matriarch

387
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:52,399
saw a ghost that's one thing but if your

388
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:53,440
black sheep

389
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,040
little step brother does that's another

390
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:57,120
thing and it's unfortunate that those

391
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,199
stigmas and social associations can come

392
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,279
into play as they do

393
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,199
so hopefully it starts conversations

394
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,880
just among

395
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,800
loved ones if nothing else

396
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,880
it was so interesting to me the the

397
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:10,800
irony in it because without the

398
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,279
experiencer we might not even be here

399
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:15,600
talking about ufos

400
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,040
you know

401
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:19,040
absolutely and and experiencers are

402
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:20,880
constantly decentralized from the

403
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:22,959
conversation you know it's like

404
00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:24,560
people will say people often use these

405
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:27,440
phrases like i i read the other even

406
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:29,040
like well-intentioned people you know

407
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,720
what i mean but like you go back through

408
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:32,639
the records like the more you get used

409
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,440
to

410
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:35,680
authors or researchers talking about

411
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,079
like my experiences and things like that

412
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:40,959
as if as if these people as if these

413
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:43,519
case studies are like mere ponds and as

414
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,199
like characters in somebody's story

415
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:47,199
rather than people that have like like

416
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,880
deeply felt lived experience and had to

417
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,800
embrace

418
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:54,959
sometimes a lot of trauma and get to the

419
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,240
other side before they could start

420
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:57,760
having these kinds of conversations with

421
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:58,639
people

422
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:00,800
yeah amen i'm so glad you're doing this

423
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,320
man i really am so if not just for me

424
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,920
you know for a selfish reason for

425
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,920
everybody same same with me i mean i

426
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,680
talk about you know there's nothing i

427
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:11,279
really won't talk about usually i'll

428
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,000
tweet or write about to talk about but

429
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,480
but if i if i do meet somebody new and

430
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,639
they're new to the phenomenon i usually

431
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:20,240
won't jump to

432
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:23,839
experiencers um but seeing jay here it

433
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,680
definitely has me thinking twice about

434
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:27,600
that because i would not hesitate you

435
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:29,279
know say listen to this guy you know

436
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,240
look look

437
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:32,639
an everyday normal person and he's

438
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,110
you know people have just

439
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,959
yeah and people exactly you know people

440
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:41,040
have this impression in their minds of

441
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,639
of what certain people who have these

442
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,320
experiences are like and they've never

443
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:46,000
even met somebody so now you see jay

444
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,600
it's like you know maybe i should look

445
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:49,839
at this and this is you know it's i'm

446
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,079
not gonna lie i'm severely disappointed

447
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,040
that the new york times didn't do it but

448
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,680
you know we're we're on the path of this

449
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,360
opening up to more people and more media

450
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,279
and i think it's just a matter of time

451
00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:03,680
um jay what did you think of the article

452
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,120
overall

453
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:06,399
well um

454
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:07,680
well that's an interesting question

455
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:10,399
because um ralph

456
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:11,519
le

457
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,320
oh wow i'm sure ralph would be okay with

458
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:18,079
me saying this but right you know for

459
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,519
the purposes of the times um

460
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:23,519
uh you know when you get quotes on the

461
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,759
record you have to go back to the person

462
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:27,680
and check with them about their quotes

463
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,000
right and so he did that and so

464
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,160
each of us that were that are featured

465
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:34,480
in the article actually only saw our

466
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,519
section of the article right and so like

467
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:39,199
the part that's that's relative to our

468
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,959
accounts we saw that and we could make

469
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:42,959
little corrections and

470
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:44,320
and um

471
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,560
and ralph and so there's like this

472
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,399
bigger section that i hadn't seen at all

473
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,560
which is like the vast majority of the

474
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,519
article

475
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:54,720
and um

476
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,160
and having talked to ralph um just a

477
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,440
week ago like i was i i kind of

478
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:03,920
and having had conversations with him

479
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:06,559
him interviewing um us

480
00:17:10,870 --> 00:17:08,799
me and me individually about about this

481
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:10,880
this piece um i kind of knew where his

482
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,799
head was at you know i mean like the

483
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,799
john mack biography

484
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,799
um one thing that people don't recognize

485
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,480
and i think is super super important

486
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,000
here is that a lot of people you know

487
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,839
they like their association with ralph

488
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,039
blumenthal

489
00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:25,199
and leslie kane is that they broke you

490
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:27,039
know the big ateb story on the front of

491
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:29,840
the new york times in december of 2017

492
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,400
and with helene cooper um

493
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,320
but the fact of the matter is is that

494
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,039
ralph actually started work on his john

495
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:39,600
mack book 16 years ago

496
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:40,320
and

497
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,480
in his research because leslie kane of

498
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:49,440
course was bud hopkins companion

499
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:50,240
um

500
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:52,640
and so and so they actually got to know

501
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:55,120
each other when ralph went to bud

502
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:56,320
hopkins

503
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,440
to to ask about john mack and so they

504
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,360
actually leslie and ralph their whole

505
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:04,160
relationship butted over butted no pun

506
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:05,919
intended over

507
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:06,960
over

508
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:08,080
um

509
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:09,120
like

510
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,559
uh abduction researchers um and and

511
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:14,960
these and these kind of like

512
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,919
sometimes to some corners like infamous

513
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,840
like uh researchers

514
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,120
um like

515
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:23,919
infamous as in like harvard psychiatrist

516
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:26,799
and cambridge hospital principal and

517
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:29,120
pulitzer prize-winning john mack exactly

518
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:30,240
yeah

519
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,919
that's interesting isn't it um

520
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,520
i didn't know that i also one thing

521
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,760
people i didn't know until recently uh

522
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:40,160
ralph discovered i think it was in texas

523
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,000
in a bookstore he saw john mack's book

524
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,400
he's like i need to contact this guy and

525
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:46,640
mack was killed a few days later so he

526
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:48,080
never got a chance

527
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:50,240
right yeah get hit by a bus or something

528
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:51,679
he got hit by a car he looked the wrong

529
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,360
way in london stepped into the street

530
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,520
looked the wrong way and as as as he was

531
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,480
dying

532
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,840
people who were there like he's like his

533
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,919
last words were like i looked the wrong

534
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:01,280
way you know

535
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,480
wow yeah what a what a loss i mean yeah

536
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,000
um

537
00:19:10,630 --> 00:19:08,240
yeah because nothing no one like him

538
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,640
that i know of at least and that

539
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:12,559
may not be the case but has come around

540
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,360
like him again no he was special you

541
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:16,880
know

542
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,600
yeah

543
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,200
i think he has especially

544
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:22,080
graduate looking at this you know

545
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,160
the ball on

546
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,160
yeah yeah not just a harvard graduate

547
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,960
but harvard faculty you know and um

548
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:30,320
and um

549
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:31,120
and

550
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,760
people don't recognize that he'd also

551
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:39,840
written a book on childhood psychology

552
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,720
and childhood development and also like

553
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:44,640
written like a highly respected work on

554
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:48,000
nightmares and so when like when later

555
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,320
years later when he came to

556
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,640
to et research

557
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,440
and researching experiencers he was able

558
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:58,080
to look you know he was an authority on

559
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,520
childhood development he was an

560
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,600
authority on things like nightmares and

561
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,520
sleep paralysis already

562
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,840
and so when a lot of people went to him

563
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,360
at that stage and were like it's just

564
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,600
you know casual people like people that

565
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,520
have no background in this

566
00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:13,760
were said stuff like that it's like you

567
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,600
don't know who you're talking to here

568
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,679
yeah yeah yeah it's like what a

569
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,440
synchronicity the guy he's like he was

570
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,760
the perfect guy

571
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,360
perfect person yeah the perfect person

572
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,559
to look into this um so yeah what did

573
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,240
you jay you know one of the things i

574
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,919
made a big deal about it really bothered

575
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:31,600
me the whole disclaimer in the article

576
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:33,840
right before the the experiences tell

577
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,440
their stories in their own words did you

578
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:37,679
have any problems with that at all

579
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:42,159
um that's a good question and i mean

580
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:45,440
one thing here is that um

581
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,400
you know tim mcmillan found out that

582
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,440
this article existed because

583
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:53,840
we at the experiencer group tweeted an

584
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:56,720
excerpt of ralph uh

585
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:59,120
talking to us about it in a frustrated

586
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:00,720
way about like not being able to get

587
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:02,799
this published and tim jumped on it

588
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,760
right away

589
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:05,280
to tim's credit

590
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,159
um

591
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,080
and you know i was aware i am aware

592
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,159
not from behind the scenes but from

593
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:14,799
what's been said today that that mj

594
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:18,480
edited the piece well ralph um

595
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,440
you know nothing i i don't i kind of

596
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:23,440
want to stay relatively agnostic about

597
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:26,720
that and like for for obvious reasons

598
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:27,520
but

599
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:28,320
um

600
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:29,280
you know

601
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:31,760
mj said that he edited the piece and

602
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:35,679
ralph said that that uh the the debrief

603
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,039
ran it um

604
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,120
like word for word verbatim from what

605
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:42,000
ralph sent them so if if mj headed the

606
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:44,000
piece he'd put in that disclaimer and

607
00:21:46,870 --> 00:21:45,360
that's about it

608
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:46,880
so um

609
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,039
you know in that with that kind of

610
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:51,840
situation i think it just goes to show

611
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,559
that there still is a lot of stigma

612
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:56,400
you know even among people that are

613
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,679
deeply invested in in this kind of

614
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:02,240
research deeply invested in in these

615
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,360
ideas

616
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:05,679
and these topics and even financially

617
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:08,159
invested or even you know people that

618
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,760
people that make their career off of it

619
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:12,159
they still are deeply skeptical that's

620
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:15,600
where things get um suspect once money

621
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:18,720
gets involved then you're um

622
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:20,000
you know you're conscious and your

623
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:22,000
decisions um

624
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,440
sway in maybe not the best ways

625
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,559
you know well

626
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:28,799
and it's also and i also at the same

627
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,520
time

628
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:31,760
you can manage it let me say but yeah

629
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,919
yeah yeah i think that i think you're

630
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,280
right that some people can and some

631
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:37,280
people think that there's i think i

632
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:38,159
think

633
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,840
you know one thing is that a lot of

634
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,280
people

635
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:43,919
they look at experiencers or they look

636
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:45,760
at people that actually

637
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:48,080
had these situations happen and as sean

638
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,360
and as

639
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,280
sean and joe as you both kind of pointed

640
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,360
out earlier you know like

641
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:55,679
we know about these situations because

642
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:58,000
of experiencers we know about this stuff

643
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,520
because of people like buddy and barney

644
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:01,679
hill even you know like

645
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,520
you know anybody involved in this

646
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,440
whether it's somebody whether it's a

647
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:06,799
navy pilot

648
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,120
or or you know

649
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:10,720
whatever name whitley strieber or

650
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:12,159
whatever that you want to put on this

651
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,679
you know what i mean people

652
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,919
like it came into public consciousness

653
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:17,440
or it was even written about it all

654
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,200
because of these people right

655
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,880
i like myself

656
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,960
and and i have to still get used to

657
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,880
saying like myself or fellow

658
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:26,799
experiencers or anything like that no i

659
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:28,080
know um

660
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:29,200
but um

661
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:32,000
but you know i i and i think that

662
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:33,679
there's a deep conflict among some

663
00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:35,440
people in this community because they

664
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:38,080
look they look at people at experiencers

665
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:39,600
and they have their own they're

666
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,520
projecting some of their own issues and

667
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,520
their own their own judgments on to

668
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:44,799
other people

669
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,600
and i think honestly like i wasn't i

670
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,840
wouldn't normally say this and i'm not

671
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,679
saying this about mj himself but i'm

672
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:53,919
saying about in general with people i

673
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:55,760
think that some people

674
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,200
look and there's a deeply human issue

675
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:01,039
where some people

676
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:01,760
see

677
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,760
somebody that's revealing like a very

678
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,279
very deep

679
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:09,760
secret about themselves something that

680
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:12,000
would normally scare people

681
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,960
all right

682
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:15,200
and they get angry

683
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,559
because they can't do something like

684
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:19,440
that themselves yeah

685
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:21,919
or they can't understand it

686
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,960
that's right

687
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,480
yeah and that too

688
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:26,559
just since we're on it i just the

689
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,880
problems i had with the disclaimer if

690
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:30,640
people haven't seen it he said

691
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:31,679
these

692
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,039
collectively

693
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:35,760
known as alien abduction

694
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,559
so these phenomena colloquially

695
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:39,760
co-equally

696
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,360
i'm saying it wrong colloquially known

697
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:43,919
as alien abduction or alien contact have

698
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,960
not been adequately adequately studied

699
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,960
it's an editorial note and according to

700
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,360
conte and adequately studied and

701
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:52,960
according to contemporary scientific

702
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:55,600
understanding are not a proven objective

703
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:57,679
event well we if you look read our read

704
00:25:01,430 --> 00:25:00,159
ralph's words we know that i mean these

705
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:01,440
people don't want to talk about this

706
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,320
because it seems so crazy i mean i think

707
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,000
it's reported in that as saying that he

708
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,919
goes i know you know obviously they know

709
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:09,520
how crazy it is let me just finish them

710
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:10,480
um

711
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,000
it goes on due to the nature of these

712
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:13,840
accounts and the related phenomena they

713
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,520
cannot be verified by the briefs

714
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:17,360
editorial team and i'm not sure what

715
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,679
kind of effort they went through

716
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:22,080
you know investigating each account in a

717
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:23,440
couple days yeah for the most part we

718
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:25,039
know we can't they can't be verified as

719
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:27,039
proven but there are pieces of evidence

720
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:29,120
that suggest these are real physical

721
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,880
events um

722
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,159
and then the last part he says these

723
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:34,880
unedited accounts have been included

724
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,279
strictly for the sake of posterity at

725
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:39,039
the request of the author and what

726
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,039
really bothers me because it's like why

727
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:43,360
would you not include jay's words i mean

728
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:45,200
we're talking about experiencers i i

729
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,120
don't see why you would only include

730
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:49,360
that because ralph asks for it so that's

731
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:51,440
what bothered me i'm glad to put the

732
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,960
article out because otherwise we may not

733
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,240
have seen it

734
00:25:59,350 --> 00:25:56,799
yeah well we there would have been a

735
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:59,360
different way i'm sure

736
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,240
um i i can't say that um

737
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,320
you know it just seems like it may be

738
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,480
the wrong landing spot for that anyway

739
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:08,640
since they typically focus on nuts and

740
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,919
bolts and um in you know

741
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:14,000
the physical aspect of this

742
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,960
so

743
00:26:18,310 --> 00:26:16,640
they're obviously trying to protect

744
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:18,320
their reputation

745
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:20,400
in doing that you know

746
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,159
um and that's unfortunate because um

747
00:26:28,149 --> 00:26:25,679
that's the exact thing that we need to

748
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,159
get rid of you know it goes without

749
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,400
saying like you don't have to say that

750
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:32,320
these aren't proven you know everybody

751
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:34,480
knows exactly everybody knows exactly

752
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:37,679
we're not idiots okay so yeah exactly

753
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,159
the piece out by a new york times author

754
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:42,640
ralph blumenthal who you should feel

755
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,760
lucky is giving you this article

756
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:47,200
you know it's the same exact thing i

757
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:50,080
said on twitter i said in 2017 when they

758
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,760
put out the article i'm sure that the

759
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:53,360
editors made them put it in there and it

760
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:56,159
says note ufo does not necessarily mean

761
00:27:02,149 --> 00:26:59,840
ufo alien alien spaceship i'm like yeah

762
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:02,159
we know we know that

763
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,159
it's like we don't know what it is so

764
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,799
yeah it's a little annoying but uh sure

765
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:08,080
it's great to see him

766
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:09,520
and

767
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,600
that

768
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,279
you know i've i've spoken with other

769
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,360
people involved with this article like

770
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:19,440
earlier today and

771
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,919
and very very psyched that it got

772
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:23,440
published you know it looked like it was

773
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,640
going to get swept under the rug

774
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:26,480
entirely you know and ralph was like

775
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:28,399
deeply frustrated

776
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,240
you know he was apologetic about it

777
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,000
there was like he was

778
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:34,240
i you know and i think that there's it

779
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,600
goes without saying that like you know

780
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,600
you work for the times for 45 years

781
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,120
right and like

782
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:41,840
and having some and i'm sure that it

783
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:44,720
kind of burns you know to to the deep

784
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:47,520
ufo history to new york well yeah and

785
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,720
not only that like like ralph led a team

786
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:52,640
himself like speaking of pulitzer prizes

787
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:55,919
and john max like ralph led a team the

788
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,520
new york metro team at the new york

789
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:00,080
times that won a pulitzer prize for

790
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:03,919
investigative reporting on on the 1993

791
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,520
truck bombing of the world trade center

792
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:07,520
the original world trade center attack

793
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:10,159
and so you know like he did a lot of due

794
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:13,440
diligence like you know like

795
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,559
yeah investigative journalism uh oh i

796
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:19,120
respect you george neb oh i respect his

797
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,880
investigative journalism but when it

798
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:22,080
comes to this

799
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:23,840
yeah i can't i can't do it i don't

800
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:25,600
believe it like

801
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:28,799
because of the topic change like

802
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,679
the uh work ethic and everything that

803
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:33,279
goes into writing the piece by this

804
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,840
journalist is the exact same

805
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,080
you know and just because it's the topic

806
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:40,480
all of a sudden ah never mind i don't

807
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,760
listen anymore

808
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:43,279
and i could be wrong i mean jay you tell

809
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:45,200
me i could be wrong my opinion of why

810
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:46,880
people avoid the subject altogether like

811
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:48,880
in my life and my family and friends for

812
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,880
the most part not all but i think it

813
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:52,720
comes down to fear i mean i don't think

814
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:54,159
it's just a paradigm i don't think

815
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:56,480
they're afraid of the paradigm being

816
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:58,480
you know changed or demolished i think

817
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,399
it's more on a you know maybe some

818
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,840
people have had these experiences and

819
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,360
they just don't want to admit it i mean

820
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,960
and i understand that i don't know how

821
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:06,559
we break through that maybe just people

822
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:08,399
like you coming forward i think will

823
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,240
help us break through that

824
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,240
yeah i agree with you and i think that

825
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,480
there's a gap in the logic you know like

826
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,559
wherever you know people have there's

827
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:18,240
you know debate is probably going to go

828
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:19,120
for

829
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:21,520
quite a while in terms of like where do

830
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,640
they come from how many va's are there

831
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,880
you know all the all these situations

832
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:29,039
but wherever you know

833
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:30,880
like i live in new jersey sometimes just

834
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:32,960
going to brooklyn and back is like a

835
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,360
journey so wherever these that wherever

836
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,520
wherever this is coming from

837
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:40,799
you know what i mean

838
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:43,279
like thinking that

839
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:45,440
they come here they just stare at the

840
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,080
tops of our houses and then they like go

841
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:50,000
back wherever they came from yeah that's

842
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:50,720
that's

843
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,440
frankly frankly ridiculous you know like

844
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,960
they're in a roof training course or

845
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,559
something no they're just yeah they're

846
00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:58,399
just water and plants when they're out

847
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,919
of here yeah they're just i don't like

848
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:01,760
the pitch

849
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:03,600
they're just shingling fanatics they

850
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,840
just love shingling that's it they don't

851
00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:08,399
have shingling where they came from this

852
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,000
would all be written off if it wasn't

853
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:11,760
for the experience as

854
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:13,760
a meteor or

855
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:14,640
you know

856
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:17,679
um light reflecting off a cloud or you

857
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:18,880
know whatever

858
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:21,840
um although a lot of it is already but i

859
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:24,480
mean it's it's um

860
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:27,200
it's the humanity of this all that

861
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:28,480
brings us in

862
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,080
so we can't forget that part as we study

863
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:34,799
it you know

864
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,120
absolutely 100 sorry for the sirens

865
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,679
again i'm in new jersey but the the um

866
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,000
the humanity is deeply deeply important

867
00:30:46,630 --> 00:30:44,000
and i think that that a lot of times you

868
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:46,640
know and i i know that both of you have

869
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:49,039
commented on this plenty in the past but

870
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:51,520
you know that there's there's a point of

871
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:52,559
of

872
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:53,520
where

873
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,919
of tearing each other down on on the

874
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:57,840
internet with regard to this topic or

875
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:59,919
just in general you know the cultural

876
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:02,480
moment is like it's a really messy

877
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,679
moment you know in 2021 but even within

878
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:07,360
that messy moment we've even got a

879
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,480
messier

880
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,880
harder to figure out situation that we

881
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,440
kind of contend with every day and so

882
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,960
you know cutting each other a little

883
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,399
slack every once in a while doesn't

884
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,640
necessarily hurt right and also at the

885
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:20,880
same time you know we're all contending

886
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:23,919
with the same or similar overlapping

887
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:25,679
mysteries and

888
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:29,279
recognizing that like in that you know

889
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:31,360
that that we can be humane with each

890
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:34,320
other hopefully sometimes would be great

891
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,399
and also recognizing

892
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,480
again that like that

893
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,559
if we can just extend that even just to

894
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:42,159
the people we know

895
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,519
around us

896
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:45,039
you know what i mean and let it spread

897
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,519
organically then it's like maybe aunt

898
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:49,360
cassie did see a ghost you know what i

899
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,279
mean however that works

900
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:53,200
that like that that it can bring some

901
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,120
togetherness and and really start to

902
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:57,120
have some conversations that are honest

903
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:58,000
you know

904
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,000
you don't have to understand someone to

905
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:02,000
treat them with respect

906
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:03,120
you know

907
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:04,080
you don't have to

908
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,000
have to believe them

909
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,080
to just be respectful that's it it's

910
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:12,240
perfect example is the anjali case i

911
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:13,600
don't know jay if you're familiar with

912
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:16,320
it i mean the hate the hate directed

913
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:17,279
towards her

914
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,440
guilty of that at first well yeah i

915
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,440
don't know i'm figuring myself out yeah

916
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:22,960
it's great i mean because i don't know

917
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:24,960
she's i don't know her story if it's

918
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,559
true or not um but to see some of the

919
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:30,000
comments directed towards her i'm like

920
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:31,200
listen you could disagree and not

921
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:32,720
believe her without being an ass i'm

922
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:35,519
sorry so you can do that and i i'm i'm

923
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:37,760
guilty too on not what experiences but i

924
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:40,080
am guilty just interacting on social

925
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,559
media sometimes i get out of hand so

926
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,640
we need to all listen to jay

927
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,029
there's something in that though it's

928
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:52,080
it's like um we need to

929
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:53,200
um

930
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,480
that's gonna happen and you may go too

931
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:00,559
far on twitter right but the person who

932
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,039
sees you doing that should also know

933
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:05,760
that they may go too far on twitter one

934
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:08,799
day and somebody else may and it just

935
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:10,480
because we're humans and we screw up and

936
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:13,440
we're flawed but it's recognizing that

937
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:15,760
in trying to do something about it

938
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,440
whether you tell other people about it

939
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,760
or not is what makes the difference you

940
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,960
know to me

941
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:23,360
a hundred percent and you know within

942
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,960
our community within our member site and

943
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,120
stuff like that you know with experi

944
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:29,360
with anomalous experiences there's a lot

945
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:30,080
of

946
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:36,240
depression there's people have been

947
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,080
hospitalized over this stuff people have

948
00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:40,320
committed suicide over this stuff

949
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:41,919
and you know we're already in a

950
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:45,120
difficult moment as a culture and and

951
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:47,120
kind of like adding that kind of hate on

952
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,559
top of it doesn't

953
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,159
it doesn't help anything you know what i

954
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,640
mean like even if even if you think

955
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:55,200
somebody like who you just mentioned joe

956
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:57,679
even if you think anybody like that not

957
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,519
necessarily her but anybody if you think

958
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:01,200
somebody is unwell

959
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:02,640
you know if you think somebody is

960
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:05,440
mentally unwell that's even more reason

961
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:06,799
not to

962
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:11,839
yeah good celebration exactly yeah i say

963
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:13,280
i'll say yeah i say that privately i

964
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,399
don't want to say it publicly i don't

965
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:16,240
want to say by the way she you know this

966
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,839
person may have some mental issues i'm

967
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:19,440
not going to say that i just want to

968
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:21,200
it's all say privately i'm like listen

969
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,480
you don't want to you don't want to push

970
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,919
this person i don't know what's going on

971
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:25,520
i'm not a psychiatrist

972
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:26,320
right

973
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,520
chris

974
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:29,200
yeah you know i don't know and i wasn't

975
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:30,240
there i don't know her story so yeah

976
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,079
that's great advice

977
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,560
and another and one more thing is that

978
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,159
ralph pointed this out the other week

979
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:38,240
and like i think that it's very true is

980
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:39,040
that

981
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:42,960
of people

982
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,960
you know there there is an element where

983
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:46,560
it's like oh they seem like a

984
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,560
traumatized person or like you know you

985
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,639
see the indicators out there of somebody

986
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,800
that that has some

987
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:55,280
like unresolved issues with regard to

988
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:58,160
this if they if they kind of come out of

989
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:59,280
of the

990
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,880
you know experience or closet if you

991
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,640
will or something like that right and

992
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,240
you know they might be anxious or they

993
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,320
might be worked up and it's like well

994
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:08,560
how do you why would they not be and not

995
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,400
only that but like

996
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:12,480
like trauma is kind of embedded in the

997
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:14,480
situation with a lot of people you know

998
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:15,920
what i mean a lot of people it's not

999
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:18,079
just like light beings high-fiving you

1000
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,680
like all day or whatever you know what i

1001
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:21,440
mean like there's there's other deep

1002
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,119
other levels to this

1003
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:25,359
and there's a chicken in the egg problem

1004
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:27,359
right because like somebody looks at

1005
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,720
somebody and they say oh they seem

1006
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,640
troubled and it's like well

1007
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:32,720
you know again living in two worlds like

1008
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:35,280
that it can like like

1009
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,119
it's even more reason for us to talk

1010
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,000
about these things so so that we can we

1011
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,720
can integrate or just have more space of

1012
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,640
understanding with each other i feel so

1013
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,560
good just talking to you now i don't

1014
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:48,400
have the opportunity to

1015
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:49,599
uh

1016
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:51,680
you know talk to people on this side of

1017
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:52,720
things

1018
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,800
you know what i mean and i hate to

1019
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,960
um you know say this side or that side

1020
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:59,119
but just for lack of a better term i

1021
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:02,079
would love to talk to you more um

1022
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,400
would you want to come back sometime

1023
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:06,160
sure i think we only had like a half an

1024
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:07,599
hour right joe

1025
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,000
um oh man we can go a little more if you

1026
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:12,240
want and i'm gonna try to interview jay

1027
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:13,520
on this sunday

1028
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:15,760
okay gotcha all right gotcha i think

1029
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,480
yeah

1030
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:19,119
uh well let me let me do this i because

1031
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,040
i have project unity coming up at one

1032
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:23,280
o'clock uh jay so

1033
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:24,400
um

1034
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:27,920
you know if you you jay not that jay

1035
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:31,520
but uh i i know that jay say hi

1036
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,920
say hi to jason okay double j no problem

1037
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,440
jay's done a lot of work on

1038
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,440
consciousness and he and i share the

1039
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,839
wilson davis uh story in common we've

1040
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,760
both done a lot of work on that so which

1041
00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:45,920
i think is totally relevant to this

1042
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,599
because if we have a craft and bodies

1043
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,960
and the bodies look like the some of the

1044
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:50,480
beings that these folks are saying

1045
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:51,920
they're seeing i mean that is that's

1046
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,480
hard evidence yeah so yeah

1047
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:56,480
yeah a lot of people say stuff about

1048
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:58,480
that now i always flip flopped on it too

1049
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,560
but in the end like the reveal is so

1050
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:02,720
huge and until it's completely proven

1051
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:04,079
false

1052
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:07,200
like why not work on it you know yeah

1053
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:10,079
and ring everything out but um but for

1054
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:11,359
the last word

1055
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:12,240
jay

1056
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:13,680
um

1057
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:16,480
i'll i'll give you a a couple minutes or

1058
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:20,160
something to just um instill some

1059
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,720
uh brightness and hope i know that's a

1060
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:23,920
big task

1061
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:28,790
um

1062
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,440
well i mean like i mean i guess what you

1063
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:33,280
have for ufo twitter i guess let's say

1064
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,359
that

1065
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,599
what advice would i have for ufo twitter

1066
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:40,240
um i i would

1067
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:42,079
spend more time

1068
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:43,599
um

1069
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,200
if if you can't

1070
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,599
if one really can't bridge this gap at

1071
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:49,839
this at this moment or has like an

1072
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,160
interpersonal conflict or like

1073
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:54,480
like the the immediacy

1074
00:38:01,589 --> 00:37:58,000
of of of ufo twitter kind of like

1075
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:01,599
um prohibits like having a rational

1076
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,760
um conversation about this stuff because

1077
00:38:07,510 --> 00:38:05,520
everybody like people love having hot

1078
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,520
takes people love reacting to things

1079
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:09,280
like the second that they see them right

1080
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,800
the second that something happens they

1081
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:12,320
want to react to it it's part of the

1082
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,920
game right but if but when personalities

1083
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,240
are involved like this and people are

1084
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:20,560
coming from such a different viewpoint

1085
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:22,000
it like

1086
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,040
there's no shame in just like taking

1087
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,440
your fingers off the keyboard like and

1088
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:29,520
going and looking at the accounts and

1089
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:32,640
going and reading like go read john max

1090
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:35,760
abduction you know it's an it is it was

1091
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,160
written about 30 years ago but it's just

1092
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,560
as true today as it was back then

1093
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,200
uh and the thing is you're like you're

1094
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,119
doing yourself a favor you're you're

1095
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:46,960
reading a really

1096
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,920
smart

1097
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:50,160
elegant book written by a guy that run

1098
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,000
won a pulitzer prize how often do you

1099
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:54,880
get that in ufology you know what i mean

1100
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:57,440
like look at bud hopkins missing time

1101
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:59,040
you know what i mean that like if

1102
00:39:03,109 --> 00:39:01,040
nothing else missing time is incredible

1103
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:03,119
because the first 50 pages of that book

1104
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,560
are like him like like like going about

1105
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,400
like researching a case that happened

1106
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,400
here in new jersey and it's like one of

1107
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:12,240
the best like boots on the ground step

1108
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:14,000
by step things on like how do you

1109
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:16,079
research a case and i'll tell you it

1110
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:18,079
does not involve sitting on the internet

1111
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:19,920
and reading about it it involves like

1112
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,920
actually going somewhere

1113
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:23,599
and talking to people

1114
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:26,320
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no no but

1115
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,000
i just mean like you know people can go

1116
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,599
about that too but you know he's like

1117
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:31,040
going he's knocking on doors he's

1118
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,800
talking the doorman he's like checking

1119
00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:34,240
the ground he's taking samples you know

1120
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,920
what i mean stuff like that and so

1121
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,920
there's there's a lot of wisdom that

1122
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:39,040
these people

1123
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:41,040
embedded in a lot of these texts and

1124
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:42,880
like you and so like you don't have to

1125
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:45,040
listen to me you don't you don't have to

1126
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,400
listen to the other people in the

1127
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:49,920
article like you like i and and honestly

1128
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:53,440
um for a point of brightness like i

1129
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:55,839
i don't necessarily care if somebody

1130
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:59,200
believes me or not what i really really

1131
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:00,960
really deeply care about

1132
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,400
is is how people treat each other

1133
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:06,400
with regard to this and whether people

1134
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:07,839
can like have

1135
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,000
conversations with the people that they

1136
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:12,240
know and that they love and if they can

1137
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,599
start with that then they can move

1138
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:16,000
towards a much more positive place

1139
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:17,280
that's beautiful

1140
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:19,520
and i will i will just add book wise for

1141
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:21,599
me the book that i would not be here

1142
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,040
without the book is communion i mean

1143
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,280
communion is the first book i read and

1144
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:27,119
it just when i read transformation and

1145
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:29,119
breakthrough is follow-ups it's like it

1146
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:31,040
turned into a world of spirituality and

1147
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:33,359
meditation and i had no idea

1148
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,960
that that was part of this phenomenon

1149
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:36,400
back then so yeah

1150
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:38,400
and i need to read missing time i need

1151
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:40,480
to go read a lot of books that's really

1152
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,720
great advice and when you have sean when

1153
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:44,400
you have a jay on i will be watching

1154
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,000
when you have them on again yeah we'll

1155
00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:48,240
greatly see him in person you'll come

1156
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:50,079
back too with us that'd be great yeah

1157
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:51,119
anytime

1158
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:53,440
yeah um i i could say i'm going through

1159
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:54,880
that kind of paradigm shift right now

1160
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,280
with invisible college so

1161
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:58,640
um

1162
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:59,599
like

1163
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,359
he's that author is

1164
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:03,760
jacques vale one of those guys i wish i

1165
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:05,200
would have started with instead of

1166
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:08,079
getting two now but you know

1167
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:09,440
any time though

1168
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:12,480
it's his birthday today by the way

1169
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:15,119
yeah he said he turned 82 today right

1170
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:18,960
anyone he's 82 wow yep um if anyone

1171
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,800
knows how to get that guy i would love

1172
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,960
to talk to him

1173
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:24,000
um

1174
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:25,440
he's gonna be here he's gonna be here in

1175
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:27,440
laughlin in november i think and i

1176
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,040
hopefully would love to meet him so

1177
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,359
we'll see yeah that'd be awesome i feel

1178
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,599
like he's the secret genius of all this

1179
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,880
right now

1180
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,119
but uh thank you so much for coming by

1181
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:40,000
um thank you for your courage everybody

1182
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:41,920
read the article be aware of what we

1183
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,920
said today there's still stigma that

1184
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,319
exists even in the ufo community be nice

1185
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:48,720
to each other joe thank you so much oh

1186
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:49,920
you're welcome thank you for bringing

1187
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,800
jay

1188
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:53,119
um i had a great time and we'll talk

1189
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:54,240
soon

1190
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:56,000
thanks joe thanks sean

1191
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,150
wow what a great show uh and unexpected

1192
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:06,079
so hang with me we're gonna talk to